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Context link, in case anyone is unaware, with trigger warning because harassment *and* stupidity in the response thereto: http://radishreviews.com/2014/07/21/wiscon-the-frenkel-decision/
But seriously, Wiscon, WTF? You *didn't have all the data*? You *weren't aware*?
I have never attended a speculative fiction con in my life. I have never attended a stated-to-be-feminist con in my life. I seldom attend conventions AT ALL (lately I average one a year, but prior to about age 22 it was zero). I don't live near where Wiscon is held.
I would never have HEARD of Wiscon if it weren't for Frenkel, and apparently I still know more about the crap he has pulled than you do. And at that, he apparently has QUITE the longer history that I wasn't aware of because I only heard of Frenkel because of Readercon and Wiscon.
For the love of everything, how is it that I am more aware than the folks who are involved in running the convention? Seriously?
I'm not sure I even have a friend who has been to Wiscon. I do have friends-of-friends, and that's how I became aware, but come on - I am on the fringe of anyone who might have heard of this, and I know more than you? It's posted openly on the internet. Even if that's not evidence you could use directly, it should have maybe raised questions and suggested you needed more information!
Also, to the occasional meme I've seen saying that rehabilitation is important: yes, yes it is. And rehabilitation is much to be desired. And that doesn't give him ANY RIGHT to go back even if he's rehabilitated. You screw up, you lose things, and people, and places.
You learn better and never do it again, it doesn't mean any of what you lost comes back - or that it should. It means you become a better person and don't go on to lose other things the same way.
He is not owed a chance to come back and "be a better person" in the space where he has already been a horrible person, even if one day he is a better person.
But seriously, Wiscon, WTF? You *didn't have all the data*? You *weren't aware*?
I have never attended a speculative fiction con in my life. I have never attended a stated-to-be-feminist con in my life. I seldom attend conventions AT ALL (lately I average one a year, but prior to about age 22 it was zero). I don't live near where Wiscon is held.
I would never have HEARD of Wiscon if it weren't for Frenkel, and apparently I still know more about the crap he has pulled than you do. And at that, he apparently has QUITE the longer history that I wasn't aware of because I only heard of Frenkel because of Readercon and Wiscon.
For the love of everything, how is it that I am more aware than the folks who are involved in running the convention? Seriously?
I'm not sure I even have a friend who has been to Wiscon. I do have friends-of-friends, and that's how I became aware, but come on - I am on the fringe of anyone who might have heard of this, and I know more than you? It's posted openly on the internet. Even if that's not evidence you could use directly, it should have maybe raised questions and suggested you needed more information!
Also, to the occasional meme I've seen saying that rehabilitation is important: yes, yes it is. And rehabilitation is much to be desired. And that doesn't give him ANY RIGHT to go back even if he's rehabilitated. You screw up, you lose things, and people, and places.
You learn better and never do it again, it doesn't mean any of what you lost comes back - or that it should. It means you become a better person and don't go on to lose other things the same way.
He is not owed a chance to come back and "be a better person" in the space where he has already been a horrible person, even if one day he is a better person.
no subject
One of the reasons why I am not a feminist is because, as a movement, feminism seems to be more concerned with either (a) being ineffectual but demanding great PR for nonachievements, or (b) ritually shooting itself in the foot and blaming it all on the Patriarchy.
I never saw the point in associating myself with the ineffectual, the incompetent, or the histrionic. Early 20th-century suffragettes were pretty badass and I'd happily hang out with them, but the movement's been perpetually on the brink of self-parody ever since the late '80s, IMO.
This response to Jim Frenkel is just one more nail in the coffin. Wiscon has no idea what they're doing, but by God, they're doing something, and they demand that whatever they're doing be taken seriously as the decisive act that it is!
no subject
I'm not sure that is, or isn't, true of all feminism. I think that, like Christianity, the label may have become too broadly-used to be cohesive beyond the most basic of tenets, if including those.
But it's a really crappy label for Wiscon to be using while screwing up. :P